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Net-Model.com
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GUITARIST'S CORNER.
Topic Start Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010 @ 8:00 AM
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Forum: Off Topic
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Quoting acrocorp:
Actually, while this thread is going, is there anyone out there looking to sell a Gibson Les Paul in the next few months.
I have a beautiful tobacco sunburst ES 135 jazz guitar I'm looking to part with and replace with a bit of rock and roll!
I want to get rid of my 81 Gibson LP but I'm too far away from you probably.
I always wanted a Fender Strat but in 83 a friend was selling this Gibson and I loved the sound so I bought it so all my money was in there but I prefer the Strat neck, it lies in my hand naturally, the LP neck doesn't.
Anyway the LP is in perfect condition. I'll trade it for a Dave Murray signature Fender Strat and big Mesa Boogie amp and cabinets :-)
| Posted By: RieniO |
12-12-2010 12:30pm |
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Quoting RieniO:
Edit: and I need a big amp. I live in the middle of nowhere with big barn, so I can put it on 11 if I want to. Then on the other hand, you mention overdrive on 7watt for practicing and thinking about it, I wouldn't want to practice and play crap with 100w overdrive. So maybe I should just start with one of these lunchbox amps. Can't they be used as pre-amps in combination with bigger amps by the way? Overdrive on 7 watt and send that into another bigger amp so that you don't have to overdrive that one to get the desired distortion? And looks like a cool job, reparing guitar amps.
Even 7 or 15 watts can go loud with a 4x12.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_VfqiPeTIU
| Posted By: Andy_B |
12-12-2010 12:44pm |
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Quoting Andy_B:
It was the heater plug under V3 that was broken. Not a great mechanical design - given the weight of the heater yellow/black leads and the size of the plug. It's connected through to the PCB underneath the valve - not much contact area to provide mechanical strength.
I can't see the modified repair on the picture that you have shown. That looks pretty much just like it does out of the factory.
What I would say is, and if you have an electronics background then you probably know what I am going to say) but all they have probably done is solder a wire to a point on the circuit board without it either being wrapped around a pin or connected to a tag or pushed through the board and then soldered (like a component). This is how the black and yellow wires have been connected to the valve base joints on the one that came in here for repair and is not good electronic construction at all. My old electronics teacher would be turning in his grave if he saw the way these things have been thrown together. The reason being that you run the risk that after heat expansion and contraction from the valves, coupled with the vibration if you use on top of a cabinet then a dry joint could occur and a risk that the wire could come away and a loose wire floating around in there could do serious damage to an amp. Especially because they tend to be thrown around in and out of vans etc.
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-12-2010 02:47pm |
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Quoting Circles_of_Confusion:
I can't see the modified repair on the picture that you have shown. That looks pretty much just like it does out of the factory.
What I would say is, and if you have an electronics background then you probably know what I am going to say) but all they have probably done is solder a wire to a point on the circuit board without it either being wrapped around a pin or connected to a tag or pushed through the board and then soldered (like a component). This is how the black and yellow wires have been connected to the valve base joints on the one that came in here for repair and is not good electronic construction at all. My old electronics teacher would be turning in his grave if he saw the way these things have been thrown together. The reason being that you run the risk that after heat expansion and contraction from the valves, coupled with the vibration if you use on top of a cabinet then a dry joint could occur and a risk that the wire could come away and a loose wire floating around in there could do serious damage to an amp. Especially because they tend to be thrown around in and out of vans etc.
Oh - sorry, that's the before picture (the dodgy plug is a little skewed).
They basically desoldered the plugs and completely removed them and soldered where the heater tracks come out on the PCB. The board seems to be thru-plated so everything still works fine.
I'm tempted to turn this into a homebrew turret wired project at some point to be honest.
| Posted By: Andy_B |
12-12-2010 02:52pm |
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Quoting Andy_B:
Oh - sorry, that's the before picture (the dodgy plug is a little skewed).
They basically desoldered the plugs and completely removed them and soldered where the heater tracks come out on the PCB. The board seems to be thru-plated so everything still works fine.
I'm tempted to turn this into a homebrew turret wired project at some point to be honest.
I see, well it's all in the lap of the Gods? It's the way things are done now.
Although when you think about it, the point about guitar amps is that they are overdriven due to poor initial electronic design. It was an accident that they sounded much better when they were being driven to destruction. Funny ole' world innit?
Something that gets that hot and exposed to that much vibration and rough handling it's a wonder they work at all. But they do and we love 'em....
DrummerUK.........you know doubt know about the drool don't you....now get back on your stool and sit up straight...:)
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-12-2010 03:17pm |
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Quoting RieniO:
Ken: I know the Orange amps from video-clips, the first time I saw them was in the "video-clip" of Black Sabbath's Paranoid. And that's the sound I want , 70s/80s hardrock/metal. I've been considering getting a Marshall, they now have a vintage version of their famous 70s tube amp that was used by all the big hardrock names and there is even a cheaper kit available which is a clone made in China which seems to be be as good as the Marshall.
Rieni the black sabbath sound in the early albums incorporated the use of a fuzz box. That is really the distinctive sound although they didn't make the mistake of using full up fuzz. That coupled with the overdrive from his amp. That is what you are hearing on the opening riff from Paranoid.
I've never been a fan of fuzz boxes, they were designed to just flatten a waveform and not much else and seemed to be a noise to me. The more controllable flattening of the wave form using the amp gain control gain and overdrive seems a much more civilised way of wrecking your waveform than using a fuzz......but again what is and what should be are two very different things as Paranoid proves.....Brilliant sound.
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-12-2010 03:37pm |
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Quoting Circles_of_Confusion:
DrummerUK.........you know doubt know about the drool don't you....now get back on your stool and sit up straight...:)
You do realise its caled a throne... Where the king of the band should sit
| Posted By: drummeruk |
12-12-2010 03:42pm |
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I think I'd class myself as an ex guitarist. I used to play in a semi successful band. But it's been a while since then.
I do still have 2 ibanez ART series guitars and a Marshall mode four stack cluttering my flat up though.
I've got to the point in my life where I have realised 'rockstar' is not a viable profession for me. I have missed my chance.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/Toxic-Lollipop/netmodelbanner1.jpg
| Posted By: DaniRiot |
12-12-2010 03:55pm |
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Quoting drummeruk:
You do realise its caled a throne... Where the king of the band should sit
Throne???........There was a guy who used to follow my old band around everywhere we went and whenever we played anywhere he used to sit behind us banging things that sounded like dustbins....One day he forgot his seat or throne as you like to call it. We found two beer crates for him.....all the chairs were stuck to the walls......after a few minutes he started complaining by the end of the first half he was in agony and he had completely cut off the blood supply to arse and he didn't stop moaning about having dead arse for weeks, apparently he suffered severe pins and needles in his nob too...... Anyway we found him a chair for the second half but like a typical drummer he still kept moaning.......Still we had bassist who we used as an interpreter for the rest of the band. So he got most of it.:)
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-12-2010 03:59pm |
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That sounds like a really classy venue :)
| Posted By: drummeruk |
12-12-2010 04:06pm |
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Quoting drummeruk:
That sounds like a really classy venue :)
Oh yes it was....you know the country and western bar in the Blues Brothers? well they film modelled that bar on the kind of places we used to play in.
While we are on the subject how about telling us about your worst gig.....This is mine and probably one of the funniest ones looking back but at the time it wasn't though....
This was about 25 years ago and funnily enough it was because of our drummer...Anyway he had a son and as a special favour we went to his son's school and played 4 or 5 songs just for the kids on the end of term open day thingy party.....We played our mildest songs and we went down really well.....So well that the local vicar even enjoyed us.....
The Vicar went to the drummer the following day and asked if he could hire our band for the churches thanksgiving bash. The church, wanting to be trendy, decided to put on a musical extravaganza starring us. We didn't know who the church had sold tickets to.
Anyway a few weeks later and the day of the gig came and we were to set up in a marquee. There was a bar-b-que going on there so it should be a good night, or so we thought. We set up and off we went and then came back a couple of hours later and as I looked at the people in the packed out Marquee , the blood drained from my face, the youngest person I could see had a blue rinse in her hair.......
The drummer clicked 1234......He smashed his snare with both sticks as the opening riff of born to be wild blew a swathe through the dance floor as the poor unsuspecting sods in the crowd all ran for the exit to escape the racket.....By the end of born to be wild there were only three people left in there dancing fairly close to the band. It turned out that they had come over on holiday from New Zealand and what they said to us at the end of born to be wild was a classic........"We are enjoying this, we don't get anything like that back in New Zealand" :(
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-12-2010 04:36pm |
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Quoting Andy_B:
Even 7 or 15 watts can go loud with a 4x12.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_VfqiPeTIU
Ok cool. I definitely want to go with a luchbox sized amp now, to start picking up the electric guitar again. I'll check out some online review and comparisations. The Mesa Boogies are good but they're also a hype for which you pay a bit extra. The first Mesa Boogies were modified Fender amps by the way.
| Posted By: RieniO |
12-12-2010 07:36pm |
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JTM 45 Head Guitar Tube Amplifier Kit
http://www.tubedepot.com/diy-jtm45.html
They also have smaller amps. I found this some time ago when looking for a HiFi tube amp.
Edit: Ken, I just found this site with guitar amp schematics:
http://www.drtube.com/guitamp.htm
| Posted By: RieniO |
12-12-2010 08:32pm |
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Quoting RieniO:
JTM 45 Head Guitar Tube Amplifier Kit
I wouldn't get that if I were you. It's a non master-volume amp - so the only way you get the nice overdrive sound you want is to run it at deafening volumes.
Look for an amp with a gain and master volume.
| Posted By: Andy_B |
12-12-2010 09:52pm |
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I won't get it, I only posted it because I thought it was interesting but it's not even a good deal, for this same amount of money one could buy a proper Marshall head.
I also want an effects loop and both the Orange Terror and Boogie Atlantic don't have that so I continue searching.
| Posted By: RieniO |
12-13-2010 12:04am |
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Quoting DaniRiot:
I think I'd class myself as an ex guitarist. I used to play in a semi successful band. But it's been a while since then.
I do still have 2 ibanez ART series guitars and a Marshall mode four stack cluttering my flat up though.
I've got to the point in my life where I have realised 'rockstar' is not a viable profession for me. I have missed my chance.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/Toxic-Lollipop/netmodelbanner1.jpg
Funny you should say that. I'd thought I'd had enough with the music/guitars etc. I went on youtube and saw what people could do, and it blew me away. I got bored of my Marshall combo which I use in my living room, you know, that same old Marshall sound anyone can recognise. I bought the BOSS GT-10 a couple of months ago, and now I'm hooked all over again. I sit a practice for 5 hours straight, and still not bored.
I get the massive heavy sound through the GT-10 as I got with my Marshall valve head right up loud, with screaming harmonics. I'm loving it. It's the first proper effects unit I've bought in that price range. The factory programmed patches sounded crap, but once I'd programmed my own it sounds great.
Preamps and effects make a whole world of difference. No? :)
| Posted By: ccp |
12-13-2010 07:59am |
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Quoting ccp:
Funny you should say that. I'd thought I'd had enough with the music/guitars etc. I went on youtube and saw what people could do, and it blew me away. I got bored of my Marshall combo which I use in my living room, you know, that same old Marshall sound anyone can recognise. I bought the BOSS GT-10 a couple of months ago, and now I'm hooked all over again. I sit a practice for 5 hours straight, and still not bored.
I get the massive heavy sound through the GT-10 as I got with my Marshall valve head right up loud, with screaming harmonics. I'm loving it. It's the first proper effects unit I've bought in that price range. The factory programmed patches sounded crap, but once I'd programmed my own it sounds great.
Preamps and effects make a whole world of difference. No? :)
The problem with effects units like your Boss and all the others. I've had quite a few of them over the years and they are great but you can't set the sounds up quietly on them because they change when you put them through your amp cranked right up.
Have you ever wasted all night setting one up on headphones and then plug them into an amp for all the settings to sound like shit. Spend the next few hours resetting them and then turning your amp right up at a gig where your sound sounds like shit mixed in with the other instruments, too much top or too muddy but shit nonetheless and you end up bypassing the effects unit and go back to your pure amp sound, thinking to yourself why did I ever think that was ever going to work. Eventually you get it all sussed and eventually a good sound.
Another reason why one of these 7 watt lunchbox amps could be handy I guess. That could save you an awful lot of anguish when you trying to get your live sound right.
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-13-2010 09:01am |
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Tokai ALS48 owner here...
Been a few years since I've played, although kept myself busy with a ukulele ;-)
Question to the floor. Im looking for a small, portable ( non speaker ) practice amp. Any ideas?
Matt
Striving for consistency
"In the words of the great E.C Cochran - Early to bed, early to rise , no jolly good if you don't advertise". G. Mainwaring, Cpt.
| Posted By: Matts_Brabus |
12-13-2010 09:07am |
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Quoting Matts_Brabus:
Tokai ALS48 owner here...
Been a few years since I've played, although kept myself busy with a ukulele ;-)
Question to the floor. Im looking for a small, portable ( non speaker ) practice amp. Any ideas?
Matt
Striving for consistency
"In the words of the great E.C Cochran - Early to bed, early to rise , no jolly good if you don't advertise". G. Mainwaring, Cpt.
Matt that is exactly what these little lunch box amps like the Orange Tiny Terror are so good for. I don't know if you have been reading the whole thread but there has been quite some discussion on the pros and cons of them. Very handy indeed as a practice amp with a full on valve sound, or tube as the Americans like to call them.
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-13-2010 09:14am |
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Quoting Circles_of_Confusion:
The problem with effects units like your Boss and all the others. I've had quite a few of them over the years and they are great but you can't set the sounds up quietly on them because they change when you put them through your amp cranked right up.
Have you ever wasted all night setting one up on headphones and then plug them into an amp for all the settings to sound like shit. Spend the next few hours resetting them and then turning your amp right up at a gig where your sound sounds like shit mixed in with the other instruments, too much top or too muddy but shit nonetheless and you end up bypassing the effects unit and go back to your pure amp sound, thinking to yourself why did I ever think that was ever going to work. Eventually you get it all sussed and eventually a good sound.
Another reason why one of these 7 watt lunchbox amps could be handy I guess. That could save you an awful lot of anguish when you trying to get your live sound right.
What i love about my mode 4 stack is its versatility. It runs on a 2 amps in one concept, where you have a separate preamp driving the clean and dirty channels. It means there is no compromise over the control of gain and mid/treb/bass levels. As soon as i upgraded to this amp i stopped using any other gain/fuzz effects.
Also, It has emulated line outs, so even at home, you can drive your gain to gig levels, but send it to a separate home post amp/headphones.
Back in my gig days i would Y split my guitar into two heads, each driving separate cabs. Bearing in mind each head call throw 350W at you. You could say i was loud.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/Toxic-Lollipop/netmodelbanner1.jpg
| Posted By: DaniRiot |
12-13-2010 09:14am |
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Quoting Circles_of_Confusion:
Matt that is exactly what these little lunch box amps like the Orange Tiny Terror are so good for. I don't know if you have been reading the whole thread but there has been quite some discussion on the pros and cons of them. Very handy indeed as a practice amp with a full on valve sound, or tube as the Americans like to call them.
Ken, Id had a look at that, but its a bit overkill for what I was looking for :)
Matt
Striving for consistency
"In the words of the great E.C Cochran - Early to bed, early to rise , no jolly good if you don't advertise". G. Mainwaring, Cpt.
| Posted By: Matts_Brabus |
12-13-2010 09:21am |
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Quoting Circles_of_Confusion:
The problem with effects units like your Boss and all the others. I've had quite a few of them over the years and they are great but you can't set the sounds up quietly on them because they change when you put them through your amp cranked right up.
Have you ever wasted all night setting one up on headphones and then plug them into an amp for all the settings to sound like shit. Spend the next few hours resetting them and then turning your amp right up at a gig where your sound sounds like shit mixed in with the other instruments, too much top or too muddy but shit nonetheless and you end up bypassing the effects unit and go back to your pure amp sound, thinking to yourself why did I ever think that was ever going to work. Eventually you get it all sussed and eventually a good sound.
Another reason why one of these 7 watt lunchbox amps could be handy I guess. That could save you an awful lot of anguish when you trying to get your live sound right.
There are limits, and studio recording/useing effects for guitars through a desk or headphones is a bit different to setting up for a band practice or gigging. Unless you use one of those stereo power amps which I've seen a few people use, Marshall make them. They go up really loud and keep a clear sound.
With the GT-10, it has output settings, for amps and small combos, and headphones etc. So what ever you're playing it through, that's the first thing you set. The second thing is with turning up loud, and the changing sound, and making it all sound right with the rest of the backline, just turn off the preamp, overdrive or distortion, if that's what wrong, and keep the rest of the settings. It just needs setting right.
I've seen so many bands who know how to set the effects up well, and those who don't. Apart from that, some effects units are just not up to it. That's why I went for BOSS. because I've used the BOSS pedals for ages and can trust that make. The GT-10 is just like having every BOSS pedal, but with even more control.
If I ever meet you, I'll show you how to do it. ;) lol
| Posted By: ccp |
12-13-2010 05:28pm |
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Quoting ccp:
There are limits, and studio recording/useing effects for guitars through a desk or headphones is a bit different to setting up for a band practice or gigging. Unless you use one of those stereo power amps which I've seen a few people use, Marshall make them. They go up really loud and keep a clear sound.
With the GT-10, it has output settings, for amps and small combos, and headphones etc. So what ever you're playing it through, that's the first thing you set. The second thing is with turning up loud, and the changing sound, and making it all sound right with the rest of the backline, just turn off the preamp, overdrive or distortion, if that's what wrong, and keep the rest of the settings. It just needs setting right.
I've seen so many bands who know how to set the effects up well, and those who don't. Apart from that, some effects units are just not up to it. That's why I went for BOSS. because I've used the BOSS pedals for ages and can trust that make. The GT-10 is just like having every BOSS pedal, but with even more control.
If I ever meet you, I'll show you how to do it. ;) lol
I know where you are coming from but that is too processed for me. But that is what makes it all interesting. I suppose it is like using film if you want the traditional valve overdrive sound and photoshop if you want any sound you like but none can make it sound quite the same as the feel you get standing with your les paul right in front of a DR103 on 11.
Still great thread I hope more musicians get involved........
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-13-2010 05:55pm |
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Now we need to find a way to keep the women (the models) out of this discussion to prevent the level going down. We all agree that women can't play instruments, right? ;-)
| Posted By: RieniO |
12-13-2010 07:18pm |
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Quoting RieniO:
Now we need to find a way to keep the women (the models) out of this discussion to prevent the level going down. We all agree that women can't play instruments, right? ;-)
I dunno if I want to get involved with that Rieni, I'm in enough trouble as it is....Still female rock guitarists just don't look right do they.
| Posted By: Circles_of_Confusion |
12-13-2010 07:48pm |
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