alias : pwd :       secure login | forgot pwd? ]
4 members online. 
6 users watching this topic.
[ Watch This Topic ]
Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | > |

Show Printer Friendly Message Reply To Topic
Author Topic : Softboxes v barndoors 
mannybash

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 1051
Views : 4361  Dec 6, 2010 3:23pm

Which lighting set up would be best for art nude? One based on softboxes or one on barndoors. Recently i tried barndoors and was rather impresed though i found the lighting a bit contrasty for my taste

Send Nm Mail to mannybash Add mannybash to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
barone

Photographer
City: Wolverhampton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 5041
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 3:29pm

How can one be better than the other, when they & their effects are completely different...




Send Nm Mail to barone Add barone to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Razoir



Photographer
City: Crediton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 5028
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 3:34pm

You say barndoors were too contrasty for your taste. That is what direct lighting does. The barndoors are only there to stop the light spilling into areas where you do not want it.

I am afraid there is no simple answer to your question. it is very much a matter of taste and what works for you.

Over time you will collect a lot of modifiers, the hidden cost of studio lighting, which is why it is so important to choose studio heads that are going to last. So you are able to keep adding new stuff without worrying about it fitting with the old.

It is a sad fact of studio work that at any given time three quarters of your kit is sitting in a cupboard BUT even sadder is the fact that when you want a particular bit of kit, it is almost certain that it is the only thing that will work.

That is not to say that a lot of stuff can not be improvised, it can.

B+Q is your friend!!

If you have any specific problems, feel free to mail me.

Huge Hairy Jeremy

And the sunlight clasps the earth,
And the moonbeams kiss the sea -
What are all these kissings worth,
If thou kiss not me?


Percy Bysshe Shelley ~ Love's Philosophy

Send Nm Mail to Razoir Add Razoir to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
paulcoxphotography

Photographer
City: Manchester
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 11498
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 3:35pm

It would depend on whether you want the effect you get from softboxes or barn doors.

Send Nm Mail to paulcoxphotography Add paulcoxphotography to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
Chris

Photographer
City: Bristol
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 1354
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 3:41pm

Ever considered using both?

Send Nm Mail to Chris Add Chris to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
BobtheBoulder

Photographer
City: Maidstone
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: May 7, 2007
Posts: 855
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 3:47pm

I find flags much more versatile than barn doors as you can vary the softness of the shadows created (and the shape of the flag as required).


______________________________________________________



Send Nm Mail to BobtheBoulder Add BobtheBoulder to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
Mattycann

Photographer
City: Birmingham / London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 36
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:05pm

Yes hard light is very contrasty, but far easier to control than a soft box.

But try putting trace paper or gels over the bar doors to soften the light.
Or as i do, use the soft boxes to fill in the darker areas to lower the contrast. So set them around 1 stop under the barn door lights..

Hope this helps.

Send Nm Mail to Mattycann Add Mattycann to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
Allinthemind

Photographer
City: Gloucester
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 2501
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:30pm

Lighting 101.

Si

Send Nm Mail to Allinthemind Add Allinthemind to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
paulcoxphotography

Photographer
City: Manchester
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 11498
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:36pm

quoting post from Chris:

Ever considered using both?

You'll be suggesting brollies and snoots next!

Send Nm Mail to paulcoxphotography Add paulcoxphotography to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by paulcoxphotography at 12-06-2010 10:26 PM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Diceman199

Photographer
City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:41pm

Speaking of improv lighting, i used a couple of sheets of kitchen paper to produce a circular snoot type thing so it turned my wide angle flash head into a spot type to give highlighted area.

Then i filled in the rest using shoot through umbrella on another head.

Will post shot once i get my lazy arse into gear and downsize & crop it.

Send Nm Mail to Diceman199 Add Diceman199 to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Razoir



Photographer
City: Crediton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 5028
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:43pm

BUUUUT if we are in a studio then the lights usualy have to stay where they are or they bump into the walls.

AAAAAAND check out the sun at sunset, that a hell of a way away!

Luvs yer back, Flickity

Huge Hairy Jeremy

And the sunlight clasps the earth,
And the moonbeams kiss the sea -
What are all these kissings worth,
If thou kiss not me?


Percy Bysshe Shelley ~ Love's Philosophy

Send Nm Mail to Razoir Add Razoir to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
mannybash

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 1051
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:44pm

Physics i couldn't stand at school i found it far too tedious i preferred chemistry. I have tried a number of different modifyers softboxes, beauty dishes and lately barndoors which somehow seem to show the contours of the body more easily than softboxes unless the power is low on the softbox. I'm sure the two cannot be the same even if you regulate the distance there must be difference in the quality of light

Send Nm Mail to mannybash Add mannybash to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by mannybash at 12-06-2010 4:45 PM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Diceman199

Photographer
City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 4:53pm

The main differences are effectivly those between point source and diffuse source.

Open lighting (direct) comes from a smaller area (point source) and will produce far sharper shadows and a greater intensity of light (for a given power)

Softboxes reduce the amount of light for the same power (due to absorbtion by the material) and spread it's source over a larger area. This will soften shadows and give a softer lighting effect.

Distance from a point source affects light according to the square of the distance. Double the distance lights are from the subject and you reduce the light falling on the subject to 1/4 original.

This changes slightly with studio lighting as the light is focused to a certain extent by the reflector in the head. so effect is probably closer to 1/2 than 1/4

Send Nm Mail to Diceman199 Add Diceman199 to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
OMalley

Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 2, 2007
Posts: 1105
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 7:04pm

Felicity, any examples of this kind of shot, and the lighting setup? Not in a 'b*ll*x, prove it' way, in a genuinely interested 'that would be reallly useful to know' way.

I rarely shoot with softboxes cause-the way I set 'em up in my amateurish way anyway-they tend to flatten the light. Consequently I'm intrigued at the notion of decent contrast etc... from a softbox.

________________________

50% photographer 60% mathematician

www.omalleyimages.com

Send Nm Mail to OMalley Add OMalley to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
AndyM

Photographer
City: Bristol
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 18, 2007
Posts: 1982
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 6, 2010 7:53pm

quoting post from mannybash:

Which lighting set up would be best for art nude? One based on softboxes or one on barndoors. Recently i tried barndoors and was rather impresed though i found the lighting a bit contrasty for my taste

You may want to use a softbox which comes with or can have a grid fitted in front of the diffusion material, which will make the light a little more directional, and help control spill. You can also "feather" light from a softbox to help show curves, etc.

Example softbox with grid

If you want a harder light with a softbox, you can remove one or both diffusion panels on a softbox, or move it further away from the subject.

You can get a barn door set on eBay for less than £20, and they are always handy to have in your lighting inventory, so why not get some and experiment?


Send Nm Mail to AndyM Add AndyM to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
RedChecker

Photographer
City: Stoke Mandeville
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 3034
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 9:26am

I may be wide off the mark here but are barndoors classed as modifiers in a true sense?

Surely the quality of light is dependant on the reflector dish the barn doors are attached to and not the barn doors themselves (which only effectively flag the light)?



I'd have thought a large gridded beauty dish (white) would have been a nice option for art-nude work.

Send Nm Mail to RedChecker Add RedChecker to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
gawatupwood

Photographer
City: Everton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 4, 2008
Posts: 372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 9:37am



Manny,


Have a look at this link

http://www.bron.ch/vt_pd_lg_sc_en/index.php

It is manufacturer specific - but behaviour of light modifiers is pretty much the same whoever makes them

And get yourself a copy of:

Light, Science & Magic




Link: lighting modifier comparison
Send Nm Mail to gawatupwood Add gawatupwood to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by gawatupwood at 12-07-2010 9:39 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Diceman199

Photographer
City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 9:47am

quoting post from RedChecker:

I may be wide off the mark here but are barndoors classed as modifiers in a true sense?

Surely the quality of light is dependant on the reflector dish the barn doors are attached to and not the barn doors themselves (which only effectively flag the light)?



I'd have thought a large gridded beauty dish (white) would have been a nice option for art-nude work.


They won't modify the qualities of the light falling on the subject but they will limit where it falls.

I would count them as modifiers in that they change what the head's throw out in some way, hence modifying it.

Send Nm Mail to Diceman199 Add Diceman199 to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
RedChecker

Photographer
City: Stoke Mandeville
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 3034
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 9:57am

quoting post from  Diceman199:

They won't modify the qualities of the light falling on the subject but they will limit where it falls.


The system I have has 7 or 8 barn-door compatible dishes in its product range and each has differing hotspot characteristics so they do differ to some degree. Each dish actually has a mini light-profile chart sticker on it to aid you in choosing the hotspot effect you want.

This is made even more complex with my system as the dishes are 'zoomable' in that they can focus the light beam by being moved up/down the length of the flash head, thus creating differing spreads/hotspot effects.

Send Nm Mail to RedChecker Add RedChecker to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by RedChecker at 12-07-2010 9:58 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
Kenp

Photographer
City: Weymouth/Portland DT3
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 10470
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 10:00am

A former NM member (Ciaran) has a very informative website.
http://www.thewonderoflight.com/articles/


-------------------
Endeavor to Persevere!
-------------------

Link: Click
Send Nm Mail to Kenp Add Kenp to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
keithcurtis

Photographer
City: Romsey
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: May 28, 2005
Posts: 5084
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 10:31am

For something in-between you might like to try looking at a beauty dish with a (shower cap? type white covering) which has a softness about it while hard enough to throw shadows across the body. It is also very good in a low key situations where a softbox can light up the whole studio.

I got two smallish ones and love em for art nude.

Keith
________________________________
www.keithcurtis.co.uk



Send Nm Mail to keithcurtis Add keithcurtis to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by keithcurtis at 12-07-2010 10:33 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
mannybash

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 1051
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 10:36am

Sounds interesting beauty dishes i have tried and liked also with a grid
which actually i liked less probably a smaller dish may be the best option

Send Nm Mail to mannybash Add mannybash to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Diceman199

Photographer
City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 10:37am

quoting post from RedChecker:

The system I have has 7 or 8 barn-door compatible dishes in its product range and each has differing hotspot characteristics so they do differ to some degree. Each dish actually has a mini light-profile chart sticker on it to aid you in choosing the hotspot effect you want.

This is made even more complex with my system as the dishes are 'zoomable' in that they can focus the light beam by being moved up/down the length of the flash head, thus creating differing spreads/hotspot effects.


That would be the dish itself rather than the barn door which is giving that effect. The barn doors simply mask the light off.

The movable reflector dish sounds quite useful though...i would like to be able to narrow down the throw of my heads without having to resort to barn doors and / or kitchen paper :-)

Send Nm Mail to Diceman199 Add Diceman199 to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
RedChecker

Photographer
City: Stoke Mandeville
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 3034
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 10:47am

quoting post from  Diceman199:

That would be the dish itself rather than the barn door which is giving that effect. The barn doors simply mask the light off.


That's what I've been trying to say all along

Yes the barndoor does modify the light but it is what I personally would call a secondary modifier as the light is primarily being modified by the dish (hence my comment about it not being a 'true' modifier) and any flag/barndoor extension added afterwards is simply blocking light as necessary.

Also the OP was talking about the harshness of the light - this has nothing to do with barndoors whatsoever.

Send Nm Mail to RedChecker Add RedChecker to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by RedChecker at 12-07-2010 10:48 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Diceman199

Photographer
City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1372
RE: Softboxes v barndoors Dec 7, 2010 12:42pm

quoting post from RedChecker:

That's what I've been trying to say all along

Yes the barndoor does modify the light but it is what I personally would call a secondary modifier as the light is primarily being modified by the dish (hence my comment about it not being a 'true' modifier) and any flag/barndoor extension added afterwards is simply blocking light as necessary.

Also the OP was talking about the harshness of the light - this has nothing to do with barndoors whatsoever.


Well i did say modifier in so much as it changes what the head's throw out rather than the quality of the light as a gel or soft box would.

The OP was asking if a softbox or barn door would be best for art nude. I think the answer boils down to what effect your trying to get rather than an absolute one or other type answer.

Personally i'm coming to like shoot through umberellas over softboxes...though this could be because the softboxes i have are a pain in the proverbial to set up.

Send Nm Mail to Diceman199 Add Diceman199 to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | > |







Forum Settings : [ Open Forum ]

You may post topics
You may post replies
You may post images
You may delete your posts