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Author Topic : Redress the balance 
Channel_Video

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Bournemouth
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 4, 2009
Posts: 576
Views : 2264  Dec 10, 2009 6:13pm

Is there a way of trying to even out the number of models and photographers on the site? One way perhaps would be to offer models free premium membership with all its facilities until the numbers become more even. As it is NM risks losing one of its core objectives as the place for photographers to come to book models. At the moment things are a bit one-sided and its more of a photographers' site. There needs to be more models.

Thanks,
Phil.

“Create your own visual style... let it be unique for yourself and yet identifiable for others.” Orson Welles

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Bob_d

Photographer
City: Chippenham
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 8890
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:19pm

Everyone gives.....everyone lives.......Everyone takes........everyone dies....

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Circles_of_Confusion

Photographer
City: Llanelli
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 5, 2009
Posts: 7910
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:27pm

quoting post from Bob_d:

Everyone gives.....everyone lives.......Everyone takes........everyone dies....

You very nearly got a poem going there Bob

How about....

Everyone gives.....Everyone takes........
Everyone lives......Evryone bakes........
Everyone dies..... They ate all the pies.


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Bob_d

Photographer
City: Chippenham
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 8890
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:29pm

quoting post from Circles_of_Confusion:

You very nearly got a poem going there Bob

How about....

Everyone gives.....Everyone takes........
Everyone lives......Evryone bakes........
Everyone dies..... They ate all the pies.


Don't give up the day-job there.....eh?

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HelenDiaz

Model
City: Chippenham
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Feb 16, 2008
Posts: 4144
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:39pm

quoting post from Bob_d:

Everyone gives.....everyone lives.......Everyone takes........everyone dies....

LOL BOB this made me giggle

Please go to http://helendiaz.webs.com for additional examples of my work, Thankyou.

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Circles_of_Confusion

Photographer
City: Llanelli
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 5, 2009
Posts: 7910
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:40pm

quoting post from Bob_d:

Don't give up the day-job there.....eh?

Don't worry Bob.....there is no danger of that.....Out of the thousands of posts that I have made here I bet you cannot recall any other attempt at poetry.....Look at this as a one off.....treasure it, it'll be another 10,000 posts before you'll see another one....

Sorry Phil going off topic...
With regards to your OP ...I think by doing that would certainly open the flood gates to some extent. However it would dilute the status of the professional models who actually pay for their premium membership and work really hard at their modelling career.....
Maybe offering something between a free and a silver membership would be a means of encouraging more models.....I do think that automatic resizing of images may be a handy optional feature for those that have trouble with that aspect of the site.

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Sandpiper

Photographer
City: Southport
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 3895
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:42pm

quoting post from Channel_Video:

Is there a way of trying to even out the number of models and photographers on the site? One way perhaps would be to offer models free premium membership with all its facilities until the numbers become more even. As it is NM risks losing one of its core objectives as the place for photographers to come to book models. At the moment things are a bit one-sided and its more of a photographers' site. There needs to be more models.


I'm not sure I follow you. You want to even out the numbers but say it is more a photographers site?

There are roughly double the number of models on here than photographers already. A quick glance shows that there are 19,193 models to 10,664 photographers.

OK, the drop out rate with models is probably a bit higher than with photographers, so a higher percentage of model accounts are probably sitting unused but there are still more models joining every day than photographers. A quick glance at the top 50 of the 'new UK users' list shows that 32 models have just joined up, compared to only 15 photographers in the same time period.

I have never found any difficulty in locating models on here, my main problem is very little time to shoot them and so many I want to work with.

In fact it is usually models complaining that they can't find photographers to work with, rarely the other way around (and then usually because it is a beginner photographer wanting TF, without a portfolio to back them up).

The only thing that makes it look like a higher ratio of photographers is the users online lists and that is because photographers spend way more time on their computers. A great many of us come on to our computers and check the site for messages, then go off and spend the evening doing our images in PS etc., however, we show as logged in to the site the whole time.

I will often be sitting on the list of members logged in for several hours on end, despite maybe glancing at the site only a couple of times for a few minutes.

Models tend more towards checking the site for messages, then shutting down the computer and doing something else. Apparently they have a life, whilst we just sit at our 'puters all night editing images.






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Channel_Video

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Bournemouth
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 4, 2009
Posts: 576
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 6:53pm

quoting post from Sandpiper:

I'm not sure I follow you. You want to even out the numbers but say it is more a photographers site?

There are roughly double the number of models on here than photographers already. A quick glance shows that there are 19,193 models to 10,664 photographers.

OK, the drop out rate with models is probably a bit higher than with photographers, so a higher percentage of model accounts are probably sitting unused but there are still more models joining every day than photographers. A quick glance at the top 50 of the 'new UK users' list shows that 32 models have just joined up, compared to only 15 photographers in the same time period.

I have never found any difficulty in locating models on here, my main problem is very little time to shoot them and so many I want to work with.

In fact it is usually models complaining that they can't find photographers to work with, rarely the other way around (and then usually because it is a beginner photographer wanting TF, without a portfolio to back them up).

The only thing that makes it look like a higher ratio of photographers is the users online lists and that is because photographers spend way more time on their computers. A great many of us come on to our computers and check the site for messages, then go off and spend the evening doing our images in PS etc., however, we show as logged in to the site the whole time.

I will often be sitting on the list of members logged in for several hours on end, despite maybe glancing at the site only a couple of times for a few minutes.

Models tend more towards checking the site for messages, then shutting down the computer and doing something else. Apparently they have a life, whilst we just sit at our 'puters all night editing images.






I'm not sure this is what is really going on. I think a large proportion of models currently join up, have a go at trying to be a model for a while, realise it takes a lot more effort than they expect and disappear without deleting their profiles. I'm willing to bet my Christmas turkey that if James were to clear out all inactive accounts (I'm not suggesting he does) there would be twice as many photographers left as models. If you look at the posters on the forums that bears out my argument. I know it's all a bit subjective, nobody other than James can really know, but the core issue is that most of what goes on seems to be photographer-photographer related. Whatever the cause, if somehow the looking for work forums were revamped and became vibrant again it would do the site and us all a lot of good.

Phil.

“Create your own visual style... let it be unique for yourself and yet identifiable for others.” Orson Welles

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Top  IP: Logged | Edited by Channel_Video at 12-10-2009 6:56 PM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
Circles_of_Confusion

Photographer
City: Llanelli
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 5, 2009
Posts: 7910
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 7:02pm


I think the looking for work threads should be moderated less vigorously as I think they get lost very easily now, and so by commenting on them keeps them more buoyant and possible create a more friendly initial contact. Break a lot of ice. I know that the rules of the site are the rules but I think if this particular issue were to be revised then it would yield better results for both models and photographers. Obviously if someone is being assassinated on there for no good reason then yes let a moderator keep it under control.

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OldMaster

Photographer
City: Harpenden
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 1950
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 7:54pm

There are 19,000 models and 10,000 photographers..I make that nearly 2:1?

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MattMiller

Photographer
City: Southend on Sea
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5747
RE: Redress the balance Dec 10, 2009 10:59pm

I'm with Sandpiper on this one ... I'm regularly contacted by models fishing for shoots here at NM ... on average about 3 or 4 a week at the moment I would say about 90% of the models that contact me have never posted on the forum and its usually the first time I have ever heard of them when they do approach me ...

The forum only represents a tiny fraction of the real activity on NM ... most of it goes on behind the scenes ... people lurk, they read and sometimes they log in to contact people they want to work with ... don't confuse the few procrastinators and self promoters (which tends to be dominated by photographers logged in but doing something else) that use the forum regularly as being representataive of the actual active membership.

-------------------------------------
I have no idea what "tasteful" is but I dont like the sound of it

Matt Miller Photography


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KISS_motoempty

Photographer
City: Stoke on Trent
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 3197
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 2:38am

Why give models free membership at all?

Encourage more people with a delusion they can justify their presence and their fee's within the market place?

The balance has been shown to be much higher in the land of the modele - how many of those were new in the month taken I wonder?

Kissy

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 persistentvision



Photographer
City: Luton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 3641
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 4:36am

quoting post from Circles_of_Confusion:


I think the looking for work threads should be moderated less vigorously as I think they get lost very easily now, and so by commenting on them keeps them more buoyant and possible create a more friendly initial contact. Break a lot of ice. I know that the rules of the site are the rules but I think if this particular issue were to be revised then it would yield better results for both models and photographers. Obviously if someone is being assassinated on there for no good reason then yes let a moderator keep it under control.


Problem with that is it just makes the LFW forums very very much a clique thing - a very few models end up with chatty comments on their threads, to the inevitable frustration of unknown models who won't get replies - so their threads suffer in relation, and the only way they can compete is a spot of bumping, which leads to more chatting and more bumping and voila, chaos.

Moderation is pretty relaxed at the minute, I just step in if it's about to kick off into a riot and that seems to work fine.

Compare it to the situation on Another Site where one LFW thread dragged on for twenty pages of repeated slanging matches...to me it just looks unprofessional in the extreme.



Ian




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PhilGW

Photographer
City: Weston-super-Mare
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 27, 2008
Posts: 1163
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 5:49am

I think some of the answers can be found buried in Kenp's forum post "???"

When new wannabe models join this site with self taken pics they are frequently sneered at and criticised and never come back, this type of sneering often takes over the forum post on the front page and takes precedent over the looking for work forums. Sure home page preferences can be reset but not many newcomers know that and the damage is already done.

If I was a model I'd join Purestorm...there I've finally said it! Friendly, bright and colourful home page with the forums hidden away and the new casting section easy to navigate. It also has a Facebook feel about it, something very popular nowadays.

This sight has a "grey" old fogey feel about it, it might appeal to us older photographers but not young models.

I think for new models it's a no brainer, pity but that's the way it is.

I still remember Kodachrome! R.I.P.

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Amy_Belle

Model
City: Southampton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 234
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 6:03am

quoting post from PhilGW:


If I was a model I'd join Purestorm...there I've finally said it! Friendly, bright and colourful home page with the forums hidden away and the new casting section easy to navigate. It also has a Facebook feel about it, something very popular nowadays.


Thanks for the tip

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OldMaster

Photographer
City: Harpenden
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 1950
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 6:44am

I do question the free membership aspect. We all know that of the 40,000/20,000 only a handful of both models and photographers are actually active.

But should we be surprised at this..out of 40, 000 models..how many good ones do you need...40 may be, same with photographers..multiply that by 10 to account for location around the country and there is still a lot of surplus!!

The fees above "free" are still extremely reasonable. Even a small monthly fee would weed out those who really are on the site to look at other pictures or models without many clothes on and to tip the balance from it being a social networking site to an actual photographer/model related networking site?

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OldMaster

Photographer
City: Harpenden
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 1950
RE: Redress the balance Dec 11, 2009 6:50am

Amy..I am also on PS..like so many here I guess..and I do like the presentation, particularly the actual image quality which is a quantum leap better than NM..my files on there are around 300-400kb..

But I don't like the fact that you can't see who has replied to casting calls...

I often find new model portfolios on NM by going onto a forum post from another tog looking for a particular type of model and assignment...and this must be good for the models. You immediately know what kind of work they like or are prepared to do and a direct link to look at their page...on this I think NM has it right..

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