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Author Topic : Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? 
Kenp

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Views : 7518  Jan 8, 2011 5:55pm

The December edition of French Vogue included this image of a six year old model (personally I think she lied about her age, I think she is eight).
So good or bad, you decide.




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krackers

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 6:01pm

Regardless of the model or her age, I think it is an awful photograph.

As far as the model goes it speaks volumns about her parents and I am disappointed at the exploitation by the magasine.

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PHOTOJOE99

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 6:04pm

+1

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Katie_Daze

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 6:09pm

It's girls like this that make my job a nightmare. High heels and sophisticated make-up and you have to ask every one for ID to get into the over 18 section.

Photograph wise it's okay... who am I to critisice Vogue? Just think the many prints clash terribly, the red's used are a little dull, the hair is way too perfect, Tiger rugs are way too cliche, the pose looks stiff and the expression is terribley pouty. Other than that a great image

EDIT: oh and knees and hand are cut off.

___________________________________________________

Nude model goes under cover... Lingerie shoot anyone?

___________________________________________________


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Sirensong

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 6:12pm

I think its awful

I mean the photographers cropped her arm way too close to that wrist joint..



Taffia's own foot in mouth "1st Osbourne division"
Working to levels of "implied good looking"

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Photoimager10

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 8:34pm

To be honest, I don't really care about the kid in the picture, but what about the use of the Tiger skin she is laying on or what looks like leopard skin on the wall. Both endangered species and here they are just to be used as backgrounds in a fancy magazine. Could it be the could`nt find a adult model willing to agree to pose in this picture?

Save the Tiger stuff the picture editor!

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Trefoil

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 8:34pm

I think the question should be is this a good, bad, naughty or a nice advert rather than a good image???

Is your or more likely the average Vogue readers attention drawn to the jewellery in the image ????? If it is then its a good advert because that is what the images has been created/designed to do.

From a purely photographic perspective of being a creative image of the model then it probably isn't a good image for the reasons already mentioned. If the image included the hands, knees etc than they may well distract from bring the jewellery to your attention.

As for whether the model is being exploited or not - none of us are likely to have any idea what so ever as to whether she is or not. I think it is totally inappropriate to make any assumptions on that.

Steve


www.steven-sexton.net

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Natural_happy_girl

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 9:02pm

WOW.
Jeez, I don't know what to think.....

Maybe it is not even that she looks old because of the makeup and styling, but that models generally are selected for having the features of children and that's another reason why it doesn't look that weird.....

thought provoking....

I'm still thinks it's an amazing image- and the girl looks beautiful....

I suppose the number of 6 year olds who spend their live obsessing with hair, makeup and clothes is so huge it was inevitable that one of them would go one-up on the others and get herself in Vogue, eh?



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ica

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 9:09pm

No way is she 6, her feet are huge!

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Natural_happy_girl

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 9:10pm

quoting post from Photoimager10:

To be honest, I don't really care about the kid in the picture, but what about the use of the Tiger skin she is laying on or what looks like leopard skin on the wall. Both endangered species and here they are just to be used as backgrounds in a fancy magazine. Could it be the could`nt find a adult model willing to agree to pose in this picture?

Save the Tiger stuff the picture editor!


To be honest, I don't really care about the Tiger....(pretty sure it's not a real leopard)....The White British person is going to be an endangered species soon, but it's not politically correct to be upset about that.....


off- topic off an off- topic


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PHOTOJOE99

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 11:13pm

Naughty....

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Pat_Hayes

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 8, 2011 11:14pm

In what context is the picture?

What is the associated story?

Possibly that would help to take a more informed position on the image

If the image is associated to an editorial regarding the targetting by designers and retailers of younger and younger markets, the image may be relevant,

Same if it's concerning the 'Loss of childhood', ie, children aren't children anymore, they're considered as small adults by the retail world, again, the image may be relevant,

and then again, kids, certainly of my generation, always played, 'Dressing up'

Personally I don't like it, in whatever context it is published, it just doesn't do anything for me.

Nothwithstanding the technical critique however

Drinking Tequila is not a bad thing......Drinking Cheap Tequila is not a good thing though

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Kenp

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 6:19am

I think people are getting slightly sidetracked by technicalities. I suspect that the styling was out of the photographer's hands and that the final cropping of the picture was done by the picture editor and not the photographer.


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Circles_of_Confusion

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 6:30am

quoting post from Kenp:

the final cropping of the picture was done by the picture editor and not the photographer.


Are you sure it came from Italian Vogue and not the Llanelli Star? There is a picture editor in there that has some form of a chronic compulsive disorder which disallows him to ever run a picture that he hasn't cropped first. This pictures looks alarmingly similar to his handywork.

I think using children in an adult poses with make up and an adult type scenario has always been a bit offensive to my eye. It is something I'm not comfortable with. I can't set out a good valid argument as to why but just some inner feeling I have about the idea.

Edit.....Oooops French vogue not Italian....

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Kenp

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 6:39am

quoting post from Circles_of_Confusion:



I think using children in an adult poses with make up and an adult type scenario has always been a bit offensive to my eye. It is something I'm not comfortable with. I can't set out a good valid argument as to why but just some inner feeling I have about the idea.


I don't know whether you have been sheltered from young girls during your adult life Ken, but they have the habit of dressing up and mimicking women in appearance and gestures. This has been happening for centuries and is all part of their growing up. Unfortunately this can also be exploited in such extreme manifestations as US 'beauty pageants'.
I look at the photo and see a young girl dressed up not unlike many young girls 'playing' at home. Others see a child prostitute and feel decidedly uncomfortable (or worse, aroused).
Equally I see a boy with a hat and a gun amd I am reminded of playing cowboys. Do you see a potential killer?


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cmcook

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 6:40am

For all the moral reasons, and some elements of the shot, it's awful!

However, considering it's French Vogue (which is much more edgy that UK/US Vogue, but not quite as much as the Italian version) - doesn't it define and make a stunningly huge statement about fashion, it's captured the attention and to be honest, whether you think it's right for a girl of such an age to be thrown into such a world, it's at least tasteful.

I don't really like it, but that's also the reason I love it.

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Circles_of_Confusion

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 6:47am

quoting post from Kenp:

I don't know whether you have been sheltered from young girls during your adult life Ken, but they have the habit of dressing up and mimicking women in appearance and gestures. This has been happening for centuries and is all part of their growing up. Unfortunately this can also be exploited in such extreme manifestations as US 'beauty pageants'.
I look at the photo and see a young girl dressed up not unlike many young girls 'playing' at home. Others see a child prostitute and feel decidedly uncomfortable (or worse, aroused).
Equally I see a boy with a hat and a gun amd I am reminded of playing cowboys. Do you see a potential killer?


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Yes but there is one huge fundamental difference. When children play and dress up and mimic adults it is because they are playing and doesn't have adults orchestrating it. Once adults join in from outside the family unit, I find it disturbing, but it isn't a point that I can sensibly argue about because it is a feeling I have for no logical reason. I just don't like that kind of thing.

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DaniRiot

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:15am

isn't dressing up in mommy's clothes a normal activity for 6-8 year old girls?




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Kenp

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:17am

quoting post from Circles_of_Confusion:

Yes but there is one huge fundamental difference. When children play and dress up and mimic adults it is because they are playing and doesn't have adults orchestrating it. Once adults join in from outside the family unit, I find it disturbing, but it isn't a point that I can sensibly argue about because it is a feeling I have for no logical reason. I just don't like that kind of thing.

'Orchestrating' is a bit strong don't you think. Every staged shoot is 'orchestrating', in this case something that happens innocently every day throughout the country. Kids in nappies are orchestrated to sell anything from babyfood to toilet paper.
Just accept the fact, that it is the female's roll to make men feel uncomfortable and they start doing this well before they actually understand what they are doing.


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Circles_of_Confusion

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:31am

quoting post from Kenp:

'Orchestrating' is a bit strong don't you think. Every staged shoot is 'orchestrating', in this case something that happens innocently every day throughout the country. Kids in nappies are orchestrated to sell anything from babyfood to toilet paper.


Yes Indeed, and I don't have a problem with babies being used to advertise nappies or kids being used to advertise most things. What I don't like very much, are young girls being made up to to make them look like an adults.
It's not a big deal really I just don't like it.

I can't even explain why, I have never given the subject a great deal of thought and it's not something that I have ever had to deal with. I have photographed thousands of kids in my time none of them were made up to look like an adult, at least no prepubescent ones anyway.

Of course I have been in a situation where a youngster gets hold of her mothers makeup bag and I've even photographed the results but not quite the same thing, I don't think.

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Natural_happy_girl

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:34am

quoting post from Kenp:

'Orchestrating' is a bit strong don't you think. Every staged shoot is 'orchestrating', in this case something that happens innocently every day throughout the country. Kids in nappies are orchestrated to sell anything from babyfood to toilet paper.


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TRUE.
Any child for a photoshoot, family or commercial is made to stop playing and behaving in a way that satisfies them, and co-erced into producing an image that satisfies someone else.

There are kids all over the country being forced into hated clothes for Olan Mills shoots for the gratification of their families....
And the humiliation of school photos....

Whereas when I was about 8 or 9 and enjoying playing in the dressing up box, which had a fair amount of mums old lingerie in it, my stepmum balked at taking my photo in case she was seen as some kind of pervert, hence ruining my fun.....hmph! Luckily I do still have loads of naked and "inappropriate" photos of myself at a younger age being myself and having fun, before political correctness went mad.....but not those particular ones of me playing harlot- shame.

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Harpy_Images

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:45am

I decided to ask Mercy what she thought of this pic.

From Mercy
"I think she looks beautiful, is she an actress? her hair is pretty, she has nice jewelry, her make up is nice, she looks like she is going to a party, or been to a party and shes tired.
You dont have to wear make up to be pretty do you? she has a pretty face and she looks like she is playing dress up, I play dress up, I got make up and sparkly shoes with heels on for Xmas didnt I? but they are not for all the time, just for parties or if I am going somewhere nice like nans house.."





****************************************************
You have a deeply disturbed yet strikingly fascinating thought process; like an accident involving a car full of supermodels, so beautiful and bad you just can't take your eyes off of it

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ScottChappell

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:45am

I'm not sure what the point of the picture is but the photographer and stylist who created it did so for a reason. (In all probility just to be controversial) Until the narrative is explained it's impossible for me to be judgemental about the use of such a young model. However from a purely aesthetic point of view it doesn't hit me as being a great image.

I'm sure Ken if you replicated the pose with your muse you could produce a much better picture. You just need Cartier to supply the jewellery.


Scott

Consistently Inconsistent

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seanb

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:49am

quoting post from Harpy_Images:

I got make up and sparkly shoes with heels on for Xmas didnt I? but they are not for all the time, just for parties or if I am going somewhere nice like nans house..


That's when I wear my makeup and sparkly shoes

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Kenp

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RE: Good or Bad? Naughty or Nice? Jan 9, 2011 7:55am

Not adding to context, but adding to contents


[/img]


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