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Author Topic : Your Recommendation For A Beginner's Kit £1K 
 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6156
Views : 558  Jul 3, 2017 4:18pm

I've been asked to advise someone who wants to progress from a point and shoot to a decent camera and lens set up.

He wants to shoot general family stuff, portraits and action sports, cricket in particular.

He has £1,000 to spend, so what would you advise.
The kit can be new or second hand.

Please can we avoid the silly brand war jokes



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Top  IP: Logged | Edited by Ace at 07-03-2017 4:19 PM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
TonyB

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City: Luton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 10, 2003
Posts: 353

Best way to spend most of the money is buy a reasonable spec cheaper end camera and buy the best lenses he can afford!! It's all in the glass, no matter how good the camera if the lens is crap he will always be disappointed but an average camera with a great lens will knock his socks off.



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 GPIMAGING

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City: Nottingham
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 27, 2008
Posts: 120

Found that the canon 7D was a great choice for sports.
However may be beyond his budget with a lens ....maybe lucky...

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fredericks

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City: Southampton
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Member Since: Apr 22, 2011
Posts: 83

I'd recommend full frame.
And as above a good lens. Perhaps for a starter a zoom?
Flash if they feel competent enough.

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 pep

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City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
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Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 94

if it's sport & family Id go DX ( Nikon ) D7200...

Though the Fuji X-T1 could be a fun alternative..

MPB would be place to go for 2nd hand...

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Top  IP: Logged | Edited by pep at 07-04-2017 4:48 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6156

quoting post from TonyB:

Best way to spend most of the money is buy a reasonable spec cheaper end camera and buy the best lenses he can afford!! It's all in the glass, no matter how good the camera if the lens is crap he will always be disappointed but an average camera with a great lens will knock his socks off.



I had similar thoughts Tony. There is a problem that is money will go further with a crop frame body and crop lenses which means he will have to change the lot if he goes full frame.

Even at second hand prices I don't think £1k will take him far if he starts on full frame. It's a difficult call.

I'm not a sports photographer and haven't photographed it since my local paper days when I used a 400mm. Is that what he needs now or would a 70-300mm zoom do?



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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
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quoting post from  GPIMAGING:

Found that the canon 7D was a great choice for sports.
However may be beyond his budget with a lens ....maybe lucky...


Thanks for the answer. Canons are great cameras but I don't have a woriking knowledge of them so knowing the 7D is good for sport helps.

Does anyone know of a good camera/lens combo from Canon which would work for sport and be in budget?



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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
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quoting post from fredericks:

I'd recommend full frame.
And as above a good lens. Perhaps for a starter a zoom?
Flash if they feel competent enough.


Thanks for the reply, full frame is good but I don't think he will do all that in a £1K budget.

I may be wrong which is why I'm asking, perhaps you could recommend some specifics?



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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
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Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6156

quoting post from  pep:

if it's sport & family Id go DX ( Nikon ) D7200...

Though the Fuji X-T1 could be a fun alternative..

MPB would be place to go for 2nd hand...


Thanks for the recommendation PEP. The D7200 is certainly a contender and would allow getting decent lenses and a body upgrade later. Does Canon do a similar model?

I did handle a D7200 and it felt tiny compared to my D300 and 810 but I envied the fact that it didn't seem to weigh anything at all!

Your suggestion of Fuji XT1 is interesting, good kit not heavy. I just worry about viewfinder lag. I know it's claimed to be the fast electronic view finder going but again have no practical experience so would be glad to hear from someone who does sports with a XT1

The answer is going to be like a lot of things in photography...a comprise. I don't think there is an ideal solution.



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 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 94

Re: X-T1... I use one for loads of situations: weddings to proms...

EVF is fine... the ONLY issue I have from time to time is banding.. which seems to happen with certain low frequency lightbulbs.. they state changing from Electronic shutter ( up to 1/32000s Silent ) back to mechanical ( very quiet ) to 1/4000s cures it.. though I find sometimes you need to shoot faster speed than you'd like..

The kit lens 18-55 I think it is is also excellent - 28-85mm equivalent..

I really like the X-T1.. T2 would be better though would break your budget I think.

I used the D7000 for frequently & it was an excellent small bodies camera.. I've zero problems with smaller bodies after lugging around a D3 & 70-200 all day..

All kit is a compromise.

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 Diceman199

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City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1369

He's not going to get full frame for that budget.

Just had a quick peak on amazon and the Canon 7D is available for £400 for the body.

I used to have a sigma 70-300 which I got good results with and those are going for around £100 used on amazon

Which would leave enough to get a nice 18-135mm lens for portrait

Possibly not the best quaility for the tele but it's a reasonable compromise and he should be able to do very nice family & portrait work.

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 Razoir



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City: Crediton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 5027

I have no experience with the Nikon D7200 but IF I am right in thinking it is the latest incarnation of the now ancient D3200 then I would agree with that as a good starting point.

The D3200 is geared for the complete novice and has helpful little settings that do everything for you but give you clues as to how to do it yourself. Also has time value, aperture value, programme and full manual.

So will shoot straight out of the box (subject to charging the battery) and will lead a beginner into using the camera rather than being used by it.
A couple of nice things are missing: no bracketing, no time lapse but acceptable video.

Indeed you might do worse than hunt down a second-hand one. Try Mifsud's in Brixham. Good website.

Huge Hairy Jeremy

Website: www.photoartimages.org

Remember, Trolls' brains are silica based and only function properly at temperatures lower than minus 72 degrees Kevin.

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 Razoir



Photographer
City: Crediton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 5027

JESUS!

Mifsud's have a Nikon D2Xs with 43,000 actuations for £399 and one with 10,000 actuations for £449.

Brilliant camera. Leaves you a chunk of money for a decent bit of glass.

Huge Hairy Jeremy

Website: www.photoartimages.org

Remember, Trolls' brains are silica based and only function properly at temperatures lower than minus 72 degrees Kevin.

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sparky101020

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City: Leamington
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 216

quoting post from  Ace:

....

There is a problem that is money will go further with a crop frame body and crop lenses which means he will have to change the lot if he goes full frame.

Even at second hand prices I don't think £1k will take him far if he starts on full frame. It's a difficult call.


Is the key buying S/H crop frame kit not new now ?
Then should he get really serious plus have more funds while the hassle of selling to start again with full frame the financial loss will be far less.

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Jedicle

Model
City: Leeds
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 24, 2017
Posts: 4



Some years ago I had a Canon 5D (Mk1) full frame 12MP and used to wander about the countryside with it and 3 lenses, it was heavy!

I then saw a Panasonic G2 12MP M4/3rds for sale very reasonably and bought it. Straightaway I realised that the controls on it were much easier to use than the Canon and it was a lot lighter.

I did a test using a tripod; 50mm 1.8 on the Canon, zoom set at 50mm [edit] (25mm on the lens) on the G2, took one pic with each camera of, a bookshelf at home and a landscape scene outdoors. I thought the bookshelf might be OK from both but the Canon would knock spots of the G2 outdoors.

Photobox did four 18" x 12" prints on glossy Fuji Crystal Archive paper for me. From a normal viewing distance there was no difference, very close inspection revealed slight differences from both cameras but neither was a clear winner. In fact the only real way of telling which camera was which was the camera file numbers that Photobox printed on the back.

I sold the Canon and lenses a few days later I've still got the G2, and a spare and a hacked GH1 for video work.

Cheers - Jed


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thelook

Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jan 25, 2012
Posts: 2

I've just looked on Ebay and found Nikon D700s around £500. Sigma 24-70 Lenses for around £300 and Nikon Fit Flashes for between £70 &£130. I think this setup gives the chance to use Pro Spec equipment (albeit old spec) in Full Frame and the chance to learn and use Manual settings without being able to cheat by using Auto. I still use the D700 as my spare camera and it is still an amazing piece of kit. Only a real pro would notice the difference between a Sigma Lens and The Nikon and as for the Flash If its not used all day every day it will last years.

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MattMiller

Photographer
City: Southend on Sea
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5746

This is what I used for nearly all my images so I would highly reccomend the following stuff to start with:

Second hand Nikon D70 with 18-70 kit lens - £150 approx
2 x SB600s speed lights (second hand) < £200 (lights fired by cameras built in TTL)
Two cheap tripods to mount the speedlights on £30
Pack of 5 white hankies for use as diffusers £2
Tin of Quality street (wrappers for use as gels, rest for scoffing) £5
Elastic bands to attach diffusers and gels to speedlights £ free (blagged from your postman)
Sainburys carrier bag to carry all the above stuff in £0.10p

Optional pre digital manual focus 50mil prime lense, found in junk shops £10 approx

Total: 397.10

Leaving £602.90 to spend on beer thats about 174 pints.


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 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 94

quoting post from MattMiller:

This is what I used for nearly all my images so I would highly reccomend the following stuff to start with:

Second hand Nikon D70 with 18-70 kit lens - £150 approx
2 x SB600s speed lights (second hand) < £200 (lights fired by cameras built in TTL)
Two cheap tripods to mount the speedlights on £30
Pack of 5 white hankies for use as diffusers £2
Tin of Quality street (wrappers for use as gels, rest for scoffing) £5
Elastic bands to attach diffusers and gels to speedlights £ free (blagged from your postman)
Sainburys carrier bag to carry all the above stuff in £0.10p

Optional pre digital manual focus 50mil prime lense, found in junk shops £10 approx

Total: 397.10

Leaving £602.90 to spend on beer thats about 174 pints.


ridiculous... 10p for a plastic bag!?

my first real camera was the D70 with kit lens.. 6mp & loved it..

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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6156

quoting post from  pep:

Re: X-T1... I use one for loads of situations: weddings to proms...

EVF is fine... the ONLY issue I have from time to time is banding.. which seems to happen with certain low frequency lightbulbs.. they state changing from Electronic shutter ( up to 1/32000s Silent ) back to mechanical ( very quiet ) to 1/4000s cures it.. though I find sometimes you need to shoot faster speed than you'd like..

The kit lens 18-55 I think it is is also excellent - 28-85mm equivalent..

I really like the X-T1.. T2 would be better though would break your budget I think.

I used the D7000 for frequently & it was an excellent small bodies camera.. I've zero problems with smaller bodies after lugging around a D3 & 70-200 all day..

All kit is a compromise.


Thanks for this information, I'll certainly pass it on.



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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
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Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6156

quoting post from  Diceman199:

He's not going to get full frame for that budget.

Just had a quick peak on amazon and the Canon 7D is available for £400 for the body.

I used to have a sigma 70-300 which I got good results with and those are going for around £100 used on amazon

Which would leave enough to get a nice 18-135mm lens for portrait

Possibly not the best quaility for the tele but it's a reasonable compromise and he should be able to do very nice family & portrait work.


Thanks for this, your recommendations certainly fill the brief and I'm grateful to you as I have very little Canon product knowledge.

70-300mm lenses; are they generally pretty good? It's a useful range but I'm always wary of lenses which cover a large zoom.

I have an 18-200mm and never use it the lens aberration is awful and it's softer than a big girl's boob.



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 Diceman199

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City: Uxbridge
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 1369

It wouldn't be professional quality but certainly good enough for hobby photographers. It also has a macro setting on the lens and I was able to make out the pollen on a hoverfly's eye....and that was on a 400D which is not a great body.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/drb1967/2850043673/in/dateposted-public/

Plus it's pretty cheap so would get him going for his sports shots until he can afford something better. Link below to the one I had
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sigma-70-300mm-f4-5-6-Macro-Canon-x/dp/B000AM7CJ0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499424493&sr=8-2&keywords=sigma+70-300+macro

and it would leave budget for something like this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Electronics-Photo/Canon-EF-S-18-135-Lens/B01BWHE8W0/ref=sr_1_2?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1499424909&sr=1-2&keywords=canon+18-135mm+lens[/url]

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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
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quoting post from  Razoir:

JESUS!

Mifsud's have a Nikon D2Xs with 43,000 actuations for £399 and one with 10,000 actuations for £449.

Brilliant camera. Leaves you a chunk of money for a decent bit of glass.

Huge Hairy Jeremy

Website: www.photoartimages.org

Remember, Trolls' brains are silica based and only function properly at temperatures lower than minus 72 degrees Kevin.


Thanks to all who have commented, Razoir, Sparky, PEP,The Look, Matt Miller, Jedicle and Diceman all mention the value of second had kit.

It's true that there are some tremendous second-hand bargains out there and I recently bought a Fuji S5 with reasonable lens for under £150 because I always wanted one....but there is a but.

The but is that technology has moved on and the current generation of cameras from all manufacturers have such high ISOs with low noise that they can virtually see in the dark.

For the newcomer this means that they can take advantage of slower lenses and do a lot of work which a while back would have required flash.

This raises another point. Matt Miller mentions buying 2 Nikon SB600 flash units for less than £200. True and they were great guns in their day but they are not a patch on the Yongnuo 685 which outguns the SB900 and a pair with controller can be bought new for around £180. In this case it makes second hand kit expensive.

The controller allows you to vary the mode and power of the guns by radio from the camera mounted unit. I was so impressed with mine that I'm about to buy another 3 so that I have a portable studio system in a bag.

It seems to boil down to a new crop frame and one not very special lens or second hand full frame and some better glass.

Thanks to all for their input, I'll let you know what the student decides.



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 Peter_Birch



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City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1058

If this thread is still valid I'd like to echo Ace's recommendation for the Yongnuo lights. Those, with accessories, plus a Nikon D3300 and an 18-200mm lens should be practical within the budget and gives an enormous range of possibilities.

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 Ace



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Reading
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quoting post from  Peter_Birch:

If this thread is still valid I'd like to echo Ace's recommendation for the Yongnuo lights. Those, with accessories, plus a Nikon D3300 and an 18-200mm lens should be practical within the budget and gives an enormous range of possibilities.

Yes Peter the thread is still valid and thanks for your contribution. I don't rave much about kit but Youngnuos are expectational value for money.

The quality of the early units was ok but not great and I found that they either failed very quickly or not at all.

The quality of Chinese manufacture has gone up dramatically in the last few years and the current products are really good in build quality, function and reliability.

People considering the 685 unit should go for the one which is matched to their camera brand to get full value from the interface.



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 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
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Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 94

rather than the D3000 or D5000 range - which have many settings only accessible via a menu system.

My recommendation would be for the D7200 which has dedicated buttons to change & select options.. plus will work with older D series lenses - such as the superb 50D f/1.8 available for photographic peanuts both new & even less 2nd hand..

D7200 is so good, having read this thread I'm considering finally trading in my old D3 for one.. ( do they fancy a D3 )

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