alias : pwd :       secure login | forgot pwd? ]
1 members online. 
2 users watching this topic.
[ Watch This Topic ]
Show Printer Friendly Message Reply To Topic
Author Topic : Overlays and Editing 
 Peter_Birch



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1179
Views : 2365  Feb 7, 2018 1:08pm

It's almost impossible to have a civilised discussion over on the purple place nowadays, but it might be possible here!

When it comes to editing I'm a heretic, using Photoimpact10, so discussions of Photoshop technique generally leave me bemused. Is this obvious, can people tell the difference?

I also use other pictures as overlays, which I'm not sure is standard practise. For example, the aged effect of the steampunk picture of Chloe is a close up of mouldy wall in an abandoned asylum set to 80% transparency.

Send Nm Mail to Peter_Birch Add Peter_Birch to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 271
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 7, 2018 4:20pm

Photoshop is a last resort for me - removal of big object.. no artistic editing I just don't have the skills, time.. or inclination..

majority of my arty edits happen in Lightroom.. presets & global edits.. I use SLR Lounge system & like the quick results..

I know PS has just created an uber selection tool that may help , esp overlays as you've done... but I just don't have the drive to try..

I think having a liking for a more natural photo helps keep me away from hours at the screen... frequency separation.. I should Coco..

Send Nm Mail to pep Add pep to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Ace



Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6510
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 7, 2018 4:51pm

quoting post from  Peter_Birch:

... Is this obvious, can people tell the difference?

I also use other pictures as overlays, which I'm not sure is standard practise. For example, the aged effect of the steampunk picture of Chloe is a close up of mouldy wall in an abandoned asylum set to 80% transparency.


If you are asking, is it obvious you have used an editing program other than Photoshop, the answer is no.

If you are asking is it obvious you have used some form of editing in the form of an overlay, the answer is yes...as the texture appears on the model's arm and body.

The next question is going to be is this right or wrong? That's where one's opinion kicks in. Mine for what it's worth is that the texture on the wall works and I personally would have masked it off the model as to me it looks like bruises....but

But that might be what you wanted, so it's correct for you.

That for me is the whole beauty of photography and editing. There is no right and wrong and you do what is right for you.

If you are a photographer by trade you will do as much or as little editing as your client wants. They will come to you having seen your work and your style. PEP in the reply above is a minimalist and his clients like the look of his images.

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum and Photoshop the life out of my shots hoping that they don't look "'shopped" but natural with lots of detail. It works for my clients and it pays my bills.

The important thing is that there is room for all styles, PEP makes a living and so do I. When it comes to the hobbyist, they have an even greater freedom because they are their own client and can do exactly what makes them happy.

There is no right or wrong, if you do something and you think it looks better...then it's right.



Ace, Ace baby! on www.acestudios.co.uk

Send Nm Mail to Ace Add Ace to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 NoNoizePhotography



Photographer
City: Croydon
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 1114
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 7, 2018 4:58pm

Any software tool you use to get your vision done is perfect. Photoimpact (or coral as it was called back in the day..I think) is where I started and it did what I wanted it to do. No one can tell the difference unless there's some effect which is patented by one company (is there?). Overlays is a long well known practice and seems to on the rise again

Send Nm Mail to NoNoizePhotography Add NoNoizePhotography to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 271
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 4:55am

ahh.. the benefit of reading on my PC.. I like the overlay you've used on the image - it suits the look - on a large screen I can see a few marks on her arm... though all looks & fits the image..

I'm a big believer in if you like it - & we're generally our own worst critics - then we've got it right...

Images are not good or bad... its just some we like & some not so much & possibly the most are just.... fine.. ok..

Rather than an overlay in post, I do like to use some foreground interference
- some foliage in this case - then used a little colouring in LR to change the mood of the image to a warmer tone...







Send Nm Mail to pep Add pep to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Peter_Birch



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1179
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 7:34am

Very atmospheric! While I'd like to think I've done some reasonable work with shallow depth of focus and blurred backgrounds, I've never really been satisfied with my attempts at blurred foregrounds. It's something I'd like to practise more.


Send Nm Mail to Peter_Birch Add Peter_Birch to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 pep

Photographer
City: Northeast / North Yorkshire
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 27, 2014
Posts: 271
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 9:22am

shallow foregrounds... yep.. that was what I'd set out to try on that one. New (2nd hand) Fuji 50-140 f/2.8 & it turns out will focus from 1m... which makes for some nice portraits...

I do find its location work that works best for it as you need some distance between lens & model...

I try & create a look in camera as I say I like some effects & the texture overlay is one I like as is the - portrait over a tree - style image I've seen in the last couple of years... something I've wanted to try...

Photograms is another... animated still image.... I had a go with couple, I guess I need to work with some more models...

Send Nm Mail to pep Add pep to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
redbaron

Photographer
City: Ayesbury
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 15, 2017
Posts: 28
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 9:52am

Overlaying images or textures on a different layer is not uncommon. I certainly do it with certain styles. It is probably less common on sites like this because so much work is glamour in its loose sense where the game seems at times to be the perfect android skin.

If you are into overlays take a pop over to Creativelive and watch out for when they have free classes by Sue Bryce. She often does this subtly using Alien skin, which can be used on its own.

Maybe worth you taking a look at On1 as that gives you a huge number of ways to have fun with overlays without going near photoshop. Also quite easy to remove them from places you dont want

This was done is Sue Bryce style using overlays...Assuming it shows on here!

Send Nm Mail to redbaron Add redbaron to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged | Edited by redbaron at 02-08-2018 10:04 AM Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 driftwood



Photographer
City: Swansea
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 1757
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 10:34am

At my local camera club there are a lot of different software packages used for editing.
In general it is not possible to know which one has been used, though a few of the "push button effects" in programmes like Nik or on-one are so frequently used they are recognisable and are fast becoming cliches.

There is at least one member of our club who also uses his own photos to provide textures and overlays.
He tells me he picked up a sample book of wallpaper designs to use for his overlays.

Kevin

Send Nm Mail to driftwood Add driftwood to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Peter_Birch



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1179
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 8, 2018 1:12pm

Thanks, all, some useful advice there.

I've been working on using overlays to create strange skin textures, but it's a slow process. This one took a lot of editing.


Send Nm Mail to Peter_Birch Add Peter_Birch to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Ace



Photographer
City: Reading
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 6510
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 9, 2018 6:49pm

At one time Photoshop was just about the only program to do editing and today it still has the largest market share but it's certainly not the be all and end all as posters above have said.

Some don't want to put the hours in to learn Photoshop, for them it takes the joy out it. Others get just what they want from other programs. From a viewers look it's difficult to say which program was used.

I've just started playing with Serif's Affinity and for the price it is amazing. If you have no experience of editing programs the learning curve is steep and if you are used to Photoshop it can be annoying as it has the same tools but called and laid out differently.

Like getting in someone else's car and finding what you thought was the indicator is turning the wipers on!

That said, Affinity gives you a lot for your money including free updates and a good range of company produced tutorials. it also has the advantage that it's a purchase and not a rental like Photoshop.

I'll let you know how I get on with it, in the future.



Ace, Ace baby! on www.acestudios.co.uk

Send Nm Mail to Ace Add Ace to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Peter_Birch



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1179
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 10, 2018 7:28am

quoting post from  Ace:

At one time Photoshop was just about the only program to do editing and today it still has the largest market share but it's certainly not the be all and end all as posters above have said.

Some don't want to put the hours in to learn Photoshop, for them it takes the joy out it. Others get just what they want from other programs. From a viewers look it's difficult to say which program was used.

I've just started playing with Serif's Affinity and for the price it is amazing. If you have no experience of editing programs the learning curve is steep and if you are used to Photoshop it can be annoying as it has the same tools but called and laid out differently.

Like getting in someone else's car and finding what you thought was the indicator is turning the wipers on!

That said, Affinity gives you a lot for your money including free updates and a good range of company produced tutorials. it also has the advantage that it's a purchase and not a rental like Photoshop.

I'll let you know how I get on with it, in the future.



Ace, Ace baby! on www.acestudios.co.uk


It seems to me that Photoshop is very poor value for money when there are so many other perfectly good editing programs around for so much less, even for free. In fact I think this whole software rental business is a bloody cheek.

Send Nm Mail to Peter_Birch Add Peter_Birch to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
redbaron

Photographer
City: Ayesbury
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 15, 2017
Posts: 28
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 15, 2018 5:06am

quoting post from  Peter_Birch:

It seems to me that Photoshop is very poor value for money when there are so many other perfectly good editing programs around for so much less, even for free. In fact I think this whole software rental business is a bloody cheek.

Not really. There may be quite a few programs that achieve the same result for most people. I think the On1 Photo Raw for example will suit the bulk of people just fine. When you become familiar with PS though nothing else comes anything like close. They are clunkier slower and lack many of the features. Plus of course being the gold standard there are endless plugins actions brushes and other stuff available to make life easier.

I appreciate that the cost of a few good coffees a month may still be a little high if all you do is use a few basic features but if like me its a full time job then it hardly registers in the overheads after rent heating and other fixed outlays.

Part of the problem may also be that people assume Photoshop is a simple program because its fairly easy to make a few tweaks. Its not. this is a major major bit of kit that even I understand less than I know of despite using it from almost version 1 and spending quite some time keeping up to date.

In short it is only poor value because most people barely use its functions. A JCB could be perceived as poor value if all you use it for is digging your tiny back garden. Which is the core of this debate. Most people on here probably only need a fork.

Send Nm Mail to redbaron Add redbaron to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
RedChecker

Photographer
City: Stoke Mandeville
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 3036
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 16, 2018 10:23am

quoting post from redbaron:

Not really. There may be quite a few programs that achieve the same result for most people. I think the On1 Photo Raw for example will suit the bulk of people just fine. When you become familiar with PS though nothing else comes anything like close. They are clunkier slower and lack many of the features. Plus of course being the gold standard there are endless plugins actions brushes and other stuff available to make life easier.

I appreciate that the cost of a few good coffees a month may still be a little high if all you do is use a few basic features but if like me its a full time job then it hardly registers in the overheads after rent heating and other fixed outlays.

Part of the problem may also be that people assume Photoshop is a simple program because its fairly easy to make a few tweaks. Its not. this is a major major bit of kit that even I understand less than I know of despite using it from almost version 1 and spending quite some time keeping up to date.

In short it is only poor value because most people barely use its functions. A JCB could be perceived as poor value if all you use it for is digging your tiny back garden. Which is the core of this debate. Most people on here probably only need a fork.


+1

For its memory / filesize handling alone (my own personal reason for chosing it), Photoshop is miles ahead of everything else if you can ever utilise its potential.

Some packages are indeed catching up though but I cannot envisage them ever mathcing Photoshop's power. Affinity Photo isn't a bad effort for a small package, and for ~£50 is pretty damn good.

If you think £10 a month for Photoshop (bearing in mind it is the industry standard for photo editing) is a bit on the high side, don't ever consider taking up CAD (Computer Aided Design). The industry standard for that is AutoCAD and comes in at a mere ~£185 PER MONTH!!!! And yes, that too is overkill if all you're going to do is simple room planning or shelf/furniture design.

Don't get me wrong, the subscription method annoys me to hell, but £10 a month is far from being a ripoff considering the calibre of software they're offering (in fact I'd say it's a bargain all things considered) and if you can make use of (say) at least 3 or 4 of the other packages in the Creative Suite, that too is an absolute bargain when you consider the cost of going down the perpetual license route. Besides, if you're making money out of it... it's written off as a business expense.

Send Nm Mail to RedChecker Add RedChecker to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
 Peter_Birch



Thread Starter / Photographer
City: London
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 1179
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 16, 2018 4:04pm

Thanks all, that's really interesting. Excuse my ignorance, as I make no claims to be more than a straightforward hobbyist, but perhaps somebody could post something that has benefitted from really high level Photoshop work alongside the original for comparison?

Send Nm Mail to Peter_Birch Add Peter_Birch to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
RedChecker

Photographer
City: Stoke Mandeville
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 3036
RE: Overlays and Editing Feb 16, 2018 5:05pm

I can't post a sample but a real-world example I've had experience of was in 2000 at my workplace where we had aerial photos that needed processing. Each of these was ~800MB in size (16,000x16,000 pixel drum scans from 8" negatives, 24-bit colour) , a modest file size by modern standards but this was when 256MB was pretty large for a PC's RAM and we didn't have 64-bit computing back then either. Apart from a handful of obscure command line programs that weren't very user friendly, Photoshop was the only software capable of handling these photos with machines with less than 3 times the needed RAM, due to its superb ability to resort to 'scratch memory' (using the hard drive as a RAM substitute). All other software (Paint Shop Pro being a good example) could only work if an image managed to fit entirely within a PC's memory (and bearing in mind a large chunk is also taken up by the OS itself).

Undo levels are also cached to disk in Photoshop, whereas many other packages also tend to use RAM... again, massively restricting your creative potential, especially if using large amounts of layers with adjustments etc. So just from a usability point of view, Photoshop wins hands down in my book when even attempting to do anything adventurous.

With my own personal work, I've suffered badly with third party software that simply was unable to cope with similar issues . A photo-montage/poster I worked on years ago failed with Paint Shop Pro due to this very problem of memory limitations (it would simply crash and lose your work). And so I moved to Photoshop... never had a problem since and I'll run out of steam long before it ever will.

I'm sure in skilled hands it would be difficult to tell whether or not something has been done in Photoshop or some competing package, but the simple fact is... it is highly unlikely anyone could ever blame Photoshop for any technical limitations that curtail creative potential and I'm not sure the same could be said for its competitors.

Send Nm Mail to RedChecker Add RedChecker to your favorites list
Top  IP: Logged Report Post Reply Reply w/Quote
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >

Forum Settings : [ Open Forum ]

You may post topics
You may post replies
You may post images
You may delete your posts