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Author Topic : 16 yr old models 
Chris_G

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City: Bath
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Member Since: May 11, 2003
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Views : 8230  Mar 24, 2007 6:16am

Can a 16yr old pose topless with parents/guardian consent,and/or if they are present at the shoot ?
Anyone know the law ?


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Chris_G

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RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 6:30am

OK. Thanks for reply

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PeterH

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City: Sheffield
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Posts: 2232
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 6:31am

There isn't a strict legal yes/no answer to this, but it would be an extremely foolish thing to do. Under 18's are all considered to be children, these days, so you run the risk of becoming a child sex offender should things get nasty.

Don't do anything with a 16 yr old you wouldn't be happy doing with a 14 yr old.

Don't do it, she'll just have to wait.

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Chris_G

Thread Starter / Photographer
City: Bath
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Posts: 28
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 6:33am

Thanks for the advice. Duly noted !!

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BrightLights_Shaun

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City: Draycott
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Posts: 944
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 6:44am

quoting post from PeterH:

Don't do anything with a 16 yr old you wouldn't be happy doing with a 14 yr old.



Better still, don't do anything with a sixteen year old you wouldn't be happy with having someone else do to your fourteen year old.



Going back to the original post it is probably only appropriate to include topless shots of models under the age of 18 in lifestyle type shoots for naturist publications.

So take mum, dad, and the daughter to the beach and get them all naked and playing in the sand.

If the parents are uncomfortable with this, then they shouldn't want you to photograph their daughter topless at sixteen.

Shaun

The camera never lies - but photographs rarely portray the truth......

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 NoNoizePhotography



Photographer
City: Croydon
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 1017
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 6:49am

had the same dilemma 3 weeks ago, mum was with her when i went to see them about what she wanted to do, that was the start of the conversation, she wanted to do suggestive and topless, even her mum was saying she wants her daughter to look like one of those FHM cover models, suffice to say i told them i dont wanna go to jail and be someones bitch - !, and left










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SimonL

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City: Dubai
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Posts: 6931
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 7:18am

quoting post from Chris_G:

Can a 16yr old pose topless with parents/guardian consent,and/or if they are present at the shoot ?
Anyone know the law ?


I would have to question your motives for wanting a 16 year old to pose in such a way when there are endless models over the age of 18 that would be suitable!!

As previously stated, would you want someone doing this to your 16 year old?

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Alt_Images

Photographer
City: Nottingham
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Nov 16, 2002
Posts: 493
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 7:21am

Just imagine it, you take your well intentioned photos

The girl tells her school friends about the shoot.

Her teacher reports you to social services/police.

They visit you, your neighbours, your employer and your workmates to see if you have displayed any paedophile tendencies to them.

Your PC will probably be confiscated for a few month as will your negative archives.

The good news is that even if you're not charged at the end of it all, your images will be safer in the hands of the authorities if your house gets petrol bombed in the meanwhile.

Of course if you get taken to court, things will get alogether nastier.

So all in all it depends on whether you're an adrenaline junkie or not!!!

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 Ace



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City: Reading
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Posts: 5641
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 7:22am

You can have sex and babies at 16 but can't be photographed looking like you might.

Funny old world........

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BlackRainbow

Model
City: Isle of Wight
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Posts: 3261
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 7:23am

Quote:

I would have to question your motives for wanting a 16 year old to pose in such a way when there are endless models over the age of 18 that would be suitable!!



Was gonna say the same thing!

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JadedRed

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RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 1:25pm

quoting post from  Ace:

You can have sex and babies at 16 but can't be photographed looking like you might.

Funny old world........


Thats a pretty stupid thing to do as well. I think that may go up too anyway, thats pretty much the only thing left that you can do at 16 i think.

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daedalhysteria

Photographer
City: Medway
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Member Since: May 5, 2006
Posts: 114
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 1:46pm

Better to be safe then sorry..

Find an 18+ model who looks younger if you need the model to look about 16yo in the finished work. Keeps you safe and gives you the desired result.

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Bob

Photographer
City: Honiton
Country: United Kingdom
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Posts: 10580
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 1:53pm

Not necessarily. It is the making/taking of the photograph, including copying, and/or the displaying/distributing (or intent to) of same which is the possible crime. Unless they were charged with 'aiding and abetting' the photographer in the crime, which is by no means a foregone conclusion and is unlikely to happen until it was proven in court that an offence had indeed been committed, it seems unlikely that parents would be prosecuted.

The way the law is written, it is the photographer, or persons distributing prescribed images, that the law targets and not the perceived 'victim'.

There is a link to the 2003 Act, but bear in mind that it must also be read in conjunction with the Protection of Children Act 1978.

Bob

Link: SOA 2003 Sect 45 & on
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Nell

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Posts: 397
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 1:54pm

quoting post from Chris_G:

Can a 16yr old pose topless with parents/guardian consent,and/or if they are present at the shoot ?
Anyone know the law ?


yeh they can if it isnt portrayed sexually , but why would you wanna photograph a 16 year old topless - most of the girls on this site are over 16 and only do topless - its not like there is lack of choice

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CharleyVictoria

Model
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Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 25, 2006
Posts: 3816
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 2:56pm

I was told you cant do underwear at 16. Isnt topless abit more "adult" that underwear!!

Oh gosh im sooo losted!

Can I do underwear then? I dont want to do topless.

Charley Victoria
------------------------------------------------------
www.charley-victoria.net

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Sandpiper

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City: Southport
Country: United Kingdom
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Posts: 3895
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 3:19pm

quoting post from CharleyVictoria:



Can I do underwear then? I dont want to do topless.



It isn't what you wear (or don't wear), it's if it is indecent or not.

Lots of sexy shots in underwear could be considered indecent, simple underwear catalogue shots would be considered plain and wholesome.

Equally, topless (and even nude) shots in the right context could be considered decent.

Personally, I would steer clear of underwear with an U18 unless specifically doing a commercial shoot for a catalogue. Too many wrong conclusions for people to jump to otherwise.

((((--- My computer beat me at chess ..... but I whupped its a*se at kickboxing ---))))

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daedalhysteria

Photographer
City: Medway
Country: United Kingdom
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Posts: 114
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 24, 2007 9:25pm

I didn't quite mean it like that Sorry if you misunderstood/I phrased it wrong.
More that he can use someone who looks a 'young' 18 rather then 'old' 18, etc.. Also I was taking into consideration that he mentioned shooting topless, but never that her chest would be seen or that the images were to be provocative. I assumed they weren't going to be in that way otherwise I doubt he'd have even considered taking them in the first place.. at least I hope not.

For example, if you need to do a photo-story about underage sex you aren't going to have your teen played by a 60 year old with a zimmer frame, but someone who looks close to the 'correct' age. I wasn't supporting explicit images of those who look underage, simply age association. It's done in films all the time; such as Thirteen where Rachael Evan Wood plays a younger character.

I definately wasn't trying to encourage or condone underage nude photos.. :|

I hope that clears that up for you/others that may have felt the same. Hopefully some people understood what I meant and that I've explained it a little clearer this time o_0

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CharleyVictoria

Model
City: Kent / London
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Posts: 3816
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 4:36pm

quoting post from  Ace:

You can have sex and babies at 16 but can't be photographed looking like you might.

Funny old world........


Very true.

As as I dont get you can do swimwear under 18 but you cant do underwear.




Charley Victoria
------------------------------------------------------
www.charley-victoria.net

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Becky_W

Model
City: Southampton
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 1693
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 4:51pm

quoting post from CharleyVictoria:

As as I dont get you can do swimwear under 18 but you cant do underwear.




That is not true, it depends on the image.
You could have a picture of a 16 year old posing very provocatively in swimwear (or fully clothed for that matter) and it would be considered indecent, yet you could have a perfectly innocent picture of a girl in underwear for a catalogue.

You are right though that its probably safer to do swimwear and not underwear. Can you really not see the difference between them? I can.

(If anyones wondering my point, I would go out the house in swimwear but I don't think it'd be appropriate to go out in underwear)

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Jayms_Fallen_Angel

Model
City: Sheffield
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Member Since: Feb 21, 2007
Posts: 72
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 4:56pm

you know there is one loophole to this...

At college I knew a 18 year old. Her mother had thrown her out of the house and so she had this bit of paper which legally made her an adult somehow...So she couldown property and she didn't need parental consent to do anything. That's the only way you will get a 16 year old who is legally able to do topless and you will not get into trouble. So yeah. Stay well clear. We don't want to end up as a pedo for something like that now do we? They'll keep you on a register all your life.

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Promise

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RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 4:59pm

common sense counts for a lot, though it isnt as common as one would hope


Dave

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Becky_W

Model
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Posts: 1693
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 5:00pm

quoting post from Jayms_Fallen_Angel:

That's the only way you will get a 16 year old who is legally able to do topless and you will not get into trouble.

I was reading about this the other day, and I think you still would get into trouble for that. Even if you have been through all that, the legal ages still apply to you. (Like you'd still need to be 18 to buy alcohol etc.)

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RedBaron

Photographer
City: Oxford area
Country: United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 2525
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 5:01pm

quoting post from CharleyVictoria:

Very true.

As as I dont get you can do swimwear under 18 but you cant do underwear.




Charley Victoria
------------------------------------------------------
www.charley-victoria.net


The law does not say you cannot do lingerie shoots, or even that you cannot do topless ones. What it does say is that should I take an indecent photo of you I could be tried for child pornography with all the ramnifications should I be found guilty.

The snag is that, quite deliberatly, the law does not define what constitutes indecent so understandably I am going to play on the side of caution, as will most sensible photographers. If that seems a bit irrational in places well rather that than having to fight my corner in a court of law.

If you think we are being paranoid then I suggest you read the link about a case in America at the moment. No nudity involved yet the owners of a Child model website are still being arraigned under US obsenity laws.


Link: Child model Website owners charged in US
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Jayms_Fallen_Angel

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City: Sheffield
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Posts: 72
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 5:05pm

quoting post from Becky_W:

I was reading about this the other day, and I think you still would get into trouble for that. Even if you have been through all that, the legal ages still apply to you. (Like you'd still need to be 18 to buy alcohol etc.)

I'm not 100% certain, but I think she did mention that she could go topless legally. It get's lost in translation because usually when I'm talking about breasts I'm pissed and seeing things. So I don't know, but if there is a way to do it that would be it.

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jetbrown

Photographer
City: Huddersfield
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Member Since: Feb 19, 2007
Posts: 138
RE: 16 yr old models Mar 25, 2007 5:29pm

A few years ago I would have confidently said Yes it was legal to photograph a 16yr old topless, but this topsy turvy world in which we live seems to change the rules as we go along.
Back on the 22nd Feb 1983 SAMANTHA FOX first appeared topless in The Sun. As she was born 15th April 1966 this would mean she was only 16!!!
Who changed the rules? And when? And why did nobody tell us? lol
Play safe - WAIT.

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